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Post by Los Angeles Kings on Dec 14, 2007 5:05:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I would definitely like to expand farm rosters. One idea I was considering is expanding this years draft to 5 rounds and making our minor league rosters 15 players. Yeah, I really like this idea. Expanded farm rosters would be great. |
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Post by chgorman on Dec 14, 2007 9:42:10 GMT -5
Wow I'm amazed. 4 no's. Where are all those yes's I heard before? POINTS IS THE MAIN STAT! It needs to be there. Ugh.Also, why do we need a 2:1 ratio? There are so many more skaters than goalies. It isn't logical to put so much value on so few players(aka goalies) especially in a 14 team league. Goalies are valuable as hell anyway cuz there aren't a ton. I say add Saves if we must however. Plz explain. I don't understand why it *HAS* to be there? Why *MUST* we use it? We haven't been using it up to this point and things have been fine. It's a redundant category when we've already got G and A, one that is most likely just going to put added emphasis on assists because there's more of them, which doesn't make much sense to me when goals should be more important. When LA originally made his suggestion on the Yahoo board, his reasoning was this: "My main argument would be that it eliminates matchups where one team has say, 10 goals and 20 assists, and another has 11 goals and 10 assists. They split both offensive categories (goals for the second team, asssists for the first team) even though the first team had a much better week offensively." My response to that would be a) then I guess the team that won assists needs to trade some assists away for some goals so that they can win both cats, as they're obviously getting more assists than they need. And b) so what happens when team A finishes a week with 10 G and 20 A (a typical ratio, given that most times, asissts outnumber goals 2 to 1 since, most times, two assists are given for every goal), while team B finishes with only 5 G but 26 A (not reallty a realistic ratio if the goal is to have a well balanced team)? Team A obviously had the better week, producing twice as many goals as team B, which are more valuble, yet loses pts because Team B got 6 more asissts, which beats out Team A's 5 more goals, and I just don't think that's right. I reelay just don't see any point to adding points (pardon the pun). Just curious, not getting pissy, not trying to start a ruckus or purposely call anybody out or anything (although that's what I'm just about to do, lol), just curious why you pro-pts guys (specifically PIT and LA) are pushing so hard for this? I must really be missing something, cause I really don't understand why it MUST be added, why it just HAS to be be there. I just don't really see the benefit. Not enough benefit to outweigh the negatives IMO, anyway. Like I said before, I voted no, but don't really have a problem if it's added, just not sure where this feeling is coming from that it HAS to be added, almost as if it'll be the end of the world if we don't. |
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Post by hawkeye on Dec 15, 2007 19:47:27 GMT -5
I voted yes, makes more sense
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Post by Washington Captals on Dec 16, 2007 23:11:41 GMT -5
Because there really aren't any negatives to it and it is the main offensive stat in the game. When people talk about a players production what is the first stat that is brought up? Points! Plus it makes comparisons easier... you don't have to add up stuff everytime you look at it, and how often does the goals difference outweight the assist diff? It is so often the other way around because assists are more common. Usually goals are only 2 or 3 apart anyway.... but a lot of times assists differences are huge and that dominance should be rewarded.
It just makes sense to have points there in my mind. That's it.
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Post by Montreal Canadiens on Dec 17, 2007 8:31:40 GMT -5
... how often does the goals difference outweight the assist diff? It is so often the other way around because assists are more common. Usually goals are only 2 or 3 apart anyway.... but a lot of times assists differences are huge and that dominance should be rewarded. Is it not already being rewarded with the win in the assists category? not to mention those additional assists usually contribute to a win in the PP category. Getting blown away in one category and scraping by in another to even out the score is the nature of the beast that is H2H. To me this is redundant; yes points might be the main stat when people talk about hockey, but I didn't think that was the point of this league- or else why would we have bothered with obscure stats that even the biggest of fans rarely follow like SHP or SOG. |
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Post by Washington Captals on Dec 18, 2007 16:55:22 GMT -5
Because it is the main stat!
It is like saying... oh well we follow Wild pitches in baseball so lets not have HR's. That is just silly logic.
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Post by chgorman on Dec 18, 2007 19:42:38 GMT -5
No, it's not like that at all. The main stats are goals and assists, which we already have, not pts, which we don't need. I don't see the point of adding a category that's gonna overvalue assists like this will, just because it's more convenient, just so you don't have to make a couple simple calculations when looking at players' stats.
You keep pushing it and pushing it, and saying there's really no downside to it, even though a couple of us have explained a couple different downsides to it, and yet you really haven't shown any negligible benefit to adding it, other than convenience. Who cares if people talk about pts all the time? That's what we have goals and assists for.
I dunno, not trying to be a dick, but the more and more I think about this, the more I think there's really no reason to add it. For every situation where somebody feels they're getting screwed because they only lost in goals by one but got 10 more assists, there's the same type of situation where somebody wins goals by 5 but only loses assists by 1 and still has to settle with the split. So it goes both ways, and all I see adding pts doing is making assists more valuable because there's more of them,and devaluing goals, which isn't right IMO. Assists are much easier to find. If pts are added, what's stopping somebody from completely abandoning goals, building a team of assist machines, and basically taking two cats (assists and pts) by default because assists are easier to come by than goals, and outnumber them 2 to 1? Is that what you want? To me, that doesn't sound like a well balanced team (which is kinda the point of fantasy hockey, right?), yet there's nothing stopping somebody who wants to take advantage of the rules from doing that if Derek installs a pts category.
Honestly, I can see why some might want it added, but I have yet to see a decent argument for adding it. It's obviously up to Derek, and I'll be fine with whatever he decides on, I just don't see much benefit, and can see it hurting those who built a solid, well balanced team.
And this isn't me bitching because I think it's gonna hurt my team. With the way my guys are right rollin' right now, I'd probably benefit just as much or than just about anybody else in the league, so this isn't me bitching 'cause I think it'll hurt my team. I just simply don't think it's a good idea.
Sorry if I'm being overly abrasive here. A little wound up today.
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Post by Montreal Canadiens on Dec 18, 2007 19:42:48 GMT -5
wonder why it's not a default setting then?
For the record, I still haven't figured out how adding points makes it easier to value players considering you are adding another category to compare.
I haven't seen a decent reason for adding it yet, and I think it is crazy to change it now after only 1 season.
Damn right I would have been drafting assist guys like Atlanta suggested- we all would have drafted differently
If it's not broke; why tinker with it?
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Post by Washington Captals on Dec 20, 2007 12:46:34 GMT -5
I wouldn't have drafted differently at all. I don't think it makes much difference at all. And you have to allow changes in leagues year to year. If not, things never change and the ideal system is never found. This is derek's league so it should really be up to him.
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Post by Minnesota Wild on Dec 20, 2007 14:44:17 GMT -5
Well it's currently at 6-5, Harrison (Canucks) cannot vote in the poll for some reason but he told me his vote is yes so that makes it 7-5. Nashville posted but didn't vote, he says he wants it as a replacement to another category which isn't really what we're looking to do right now. And Calgary hasn't voted yet, I'm currently looking to replace him as he's been unresponsive for the last few weeks and haven't seen him on MSN in a couple months. We should have a replacement either tomorrow or sometime this weekend, so then they will be able to vote and we can get this resolved.
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Post by Montreal Canadiens on Dec 20, 2007 16:59:00 GMT -5
I wouldn't have drafted differently at all. I don't think it makes much difference at all. And you have to allow changes in leagues year to year. If not, things never change and the ideal system is never found. This is derek's league so it should really be up to him. True, I suppose you would have still taken SID- but if points were a category I bet Joe Thornton might have been picked earlier....as it is, he wasn't because he is an assists guy. How can you honestly say it doesn't make a difference? And, if it doesn't make that much of a difference, then why is a change needed? Everyone wants the ideal system, but: a) what is wrong with the current system b) almost half the league doesn't want to change it- is that IDEAL? |
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Post by Montreal Canadiens on Dec 20, 2007 17:01:22 GMT -5
Well it's currently at 6-5, Harrison (Canucks) cannot vote in the poll for some reason but he told me his vote is yes so that makes it 7-5. Nashville posted but didn't vote, he says he wants it as a replacement to another category which isn't really what we're looking to do right now. And Calgary hasn't voted yet, I'm currently looking to replace him as he's been unresponsive for the last few weeks and haven't seen him on MSN in a couple months. We should have a replacement either tomorrow or sometime this weekend, so then they will be able to vote and we can get this resolved. so would you just do a new poll where it is straight votes? I have no problem if you want to change it, but I think it is kinda jumping the gun. I mean has the exclusion of points caused any problems? |
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Post by Minnesota Wild on Dec 21, 2007 15:31:35 GMT -5
I don't think a new poll would be necessary. Basically the vote stands at 7-5 right now with Nashville yet to cast an official vote and without the new guy (who I will select today). So it's basically up to those 2.
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Post by Anaheim Ducks on Dec 21, 2007 17:08:34 GMT -5
No matter what's the outcome and the final decision, should we re-visit this topic next season again since the vote is so close?
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Post by Washington Captals on Dec 29, 2007 21:43:46 GMT -5
I see no reason to re-visit and I also think several no's were from a "if we add another cat for goalie" situation. It is really up to derek. It is pretty close and convoluted and he should just decide since the league might be split. Still, if Calgary goes with Yes, I guess we have points as a cat.
I would love to see SOG as a goalie stat so that there is more quantity to go with the two quality stats. Right now all we have is W's as a quantity cuz shutouts don't occur often enough to be a valid quantity stat imo.
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