|
Post by Minnesota Wild on Feb 19, 2007 19:52:32 GMT -5
By no means are any of the rules set in stone. I'm a first time keeper league commissioner so if anybody has any questions about the rules, or if anybody has any suggestions feel free to post them here.
|
|
|
Post by Washington Captals on Feb 19, 2007 20:32:05 GMT -5
First off... this looks exciting . Second here are a few ideas/concerns I have that we can toss around. 1. This one is the biggest concern for me. We NEED a veto system. It doesn't have to be a very strong one... but it still needs to be there in cases of collusion. I know you could say the commish could step in but I think we need several opinons. I propose we have the veto under the power of the commish but based on 6 POSTED vetoes out of 12. I say 12 because we could not allow the 2 teams involved in the trade to veto their own. Can't back out haha (unless you hit the botton by mistake or something) I feel 6 out of a possible 12 is pretty difficult to get to since that is 50%. We could even make it 8 if you are concerned. 2. no age limit on Minors. I think that is a slippery slope and makes prospect drafting much less interesting on a yearly basis... and everyone loves drafts right . I say make the prospect age limit based on the same limit that the NHL uses.... must be 18 by SEPT 15 of the present draft year. Just my take. 3. No waiver period... couldn't that cause collusion? He man.. I'll drop this guy at 1am and you snap him up right there. 1 day is what I like so everyone has a shot. This one concerns me a lot as well. 4. Question: so are we combining prospects and NHL players all in one draft? If so that is cool I'm just wondering. 5. Question: can anyone go down to the farm? I see we have a combined max of 28 players so I guess that means we might as well not have an IR right cuz we would just send them down to the farm and call up someone? 6. I see we lock the rosters after the trade deadline. But we do permit minor league transactions. Does that mean just add/drop or trades too? If we can add doesn't that mean that we can move players up from the minors to our big club or would that be locked then? My main concern is injuries. I think we need to have injury replacement for players during the playoffs but maybe that is what the minors are for. I guess it just takes more planning cuz in real NHL playoffs you just can't grab some guy off the FA eh? haha 7. You could also put minor teams in the commish note as well as message board for quick access and checking on yahoo. 8. So we can only add prospects to the minors that are in the database? I see that puts more emphasis on drafting. 9. You may want to consider a draft lottery for the teams that don't make the playoffs. This will prevent someone from completely bombing being sure they will get a taveres type player. Instead they will only be guaranteed the best chance not the sure thing. The draft randomizer is also good for the lottery. 10. We need a turnover system. I didn't take this into account enough in my keeper league at the beginning. By luck or skill a team can build an amazing dynasty. If this occurs the league will be dead without a yearly turnover system. The best teams will get board with winning and the worst will quit with no chance to catch up in a year or two. It might take them 5 years if they are unlucky and many people won't be that patient. I suggest some sort of system based on performance. The best teams lose players to the worst. This is kinda like cup teams losing players who are cashing in on UFA market after the great season. We must have some kind of system IMO. So those are my thoughts. I'm only really concerned with a Veto system, Waiver system and Turnover system. I love some of the ideas you already have and it looks like it will be great for years to come!
|
|
|
Post by Anaheim Ducks on Feb 19, 2007 20:38:40 GMT -5
It's just my opinion.
I guess most of the teams who join this league know their stuffs and is experience and mature enough to judge its own trading value. I believe we don't need a safety net for each of us in making a bad trade.
I am not a big fan of VETO system and I don't understand why other teams can stop a trade when both trading parties agree mutually.
|
|
|
Post by Washington Captals on Feb 19, 2007 20:51:04 GMT -5
There is always a chance of something sneaky. Here is an article that shows the downsides of trading and why there needs to be a veto system. www.dobberhockey.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=259&mode=nested&order=0&thold=-1The main comment I like in it is... To begin with, you absolutely must have trade voting (I'd be surprised if any serious leagues don't use some sort of trade voting system). I just really feel strongly that we need some sort of structure. If this league is really active (as I expect) then even 10 out of 14 vetoing would be good enough. Weak yet still there for extreme cases. Even in pro sports trades must be approved by some governing body... like in baseball when they disallowed the A-rod trade to boston.
|
|
|
Post by darkvaliant on Feb 19, 2007 23:03:43 GMT -5
I have to agree with Pittsburgh Penguins' number 3 question. We should have a short waiver period, just to allow everyone the chance to see who was dropped and get a waiver claim in on that player. It would be a shame to wake up and see someone you would have liked to get already snapped up by someone in a different time zone.
As for the veto system, I don't really think it's necessary in a league like this unless there is money involved. If there really is collusion, the commish should be able to correct it before any damage is done. A good reason to not have one is that legit trades go through a lot faster.
|
|
|
Post by Washington Captals on Feb 19, 2007 23:44:08 GMT -5
I guess I'm willing to try it without vetos... just kinda scary I guess. The speed of deals would be cool though.
Waivers is a must. The time zone thing is another good point with that.
|
|
|
Post by patriot0103 on Feb 19, 2007 23:48:33 GMT -5
I agree with the waiver issue. The vetos isn't necessary. Everybody in this league should be perfectly capable of trading for the best interest of their team. If that didn't happen, it could be stopped before the rosters got messed up too bad.
Pittsburgh's other issues are something I'll have to figure out my opinion on tomorrow, because I'm too tired to focus on those now lol.
|
|
|
Post by Minnesota Wild on Feb 20, 2007 1:05:29 GMT -5
First off... this looks exciting . Second here are a few ideas/concerns I have that we can toss around. 1. This one is the biggest concern for me. We NEED a veto system. It doesn't have to be a very strong one... but it still needs to be there in cases of collusion. I know you could say the commish could step in but I think we need several opinons. I propose we have the veto under the power of the commish but based on 6 POSTED vetoes out of 12. I say 12 because we could not allow the 2 teams involved in the trade to veto their own. Can't back out haha (unless you hit the botton by mistake or something) I feel 6 out of a possible 12 is pretty difficult to get to since that is 50%. We could even make it 8 if you are concerned. As others have said, I'm making sure that all managers in this league are more than competent. Everybody should be responsible for trading in the best interest of their team. I really am not worried about this system, if one team is consistently making bad trades then they will be replaced. That's just my take on it. 2. no age limit on Minors. I think that is a slippery slope and makes prospect drafting much less interesting on a yearly basis... and everyone loves drafts right . I say make the prospect age limit based on the same limit that the NHL uses.... must be 18 by SEPT 15 of the present draft year. Just my take. There is an age limit on minors, the rules say that players can only be drafted if they have been drafted by an NHL team. 3. No waiver period... couldn't that cause collusion? He man.. I'll drop this guy at 1am and you snap him up right there. 1 day is what I like so everyone has a shot. This one concerns me a lot as well. This is something I hadn't thought over too much, a one day waiver period wouldn't bother me at all as long as it doesn't bother anybody else. 4. Question: so are we combining prospects and NHL players all in one draft? If so that is cool I'm just wondering. Yes, NHL players and prospects will all be drafted together in one draft. There will be a deadline set (likely Sept 1st or Oct 1st, something like that) and you will need to submit your regular roster and minor league roster by that date. 5. Question: can anyone go down to the farm? I see we have a combined max of 28 players so I guess that means we might as well not have an IR right cuz we would just send them down to the farm and call up someone? Yes, I'm not sure what I was thinking when doing that. There will be no IR, players who get hurt can simply be sent down to your minor league team. 6. I see we lock the rosters after the trade deadline. But we do permit minor league transactions. Does that mean just add/drop or trades too? If we can add doesn't that mean that we can move players up from the minors to our big club or would that be locked then? My main concern is injuries. I think we need to have injury replacement for players during the playoffs but maybe that is what the minors are for. I guess it just takes more planning cuz in real NHL playoffs you just can't grab some guy off the FA eh? haha Trades will be locked through Yahoo, Add/Drop's will be "locked" as well but will not be able to be locked through Yahoo because Minor League Transactions will still be allowed (as you state, in case of an injury). All managers will be informed come the trade deadline that only Minor League Transactions will be allowed. 7. You could also put minor teams in the commish note as well as message board for quick access and checking on yahoo. That is something I will consider. 8. So we can only add prospects to the minors that are in the database? I see that puts more emphasis on drafting. Yes, that is correct. The only time a player not in the Yahoo database can be acquired is through the draft. 9. You may want to consider a draft lottery for the teams that don't make the playoffs. This will prevent someone from completely bombing being sure they will get a taveres type player. Instead they will only be guaranteed the best chance not the sure thing. The draft randomizer is also good for the lottery. This is definitly something we will consider when the time gets closer (i.e. next summer). 10. We need a turnover system. I didn't take this into account enough in my keeper league at the beginning. By luck or skill a team can build an amazing dynasty. If this occurs the league will be dead without a yearly turnover system. The best teams will get board with winning and the worst will quit with no chance to catch up in a year or two. It might take them 5 years if they are unlucky and many people won't be that patient. I suggest some sort of system based on performance. The best teams lose players to the worst. This is kinda like cup teams losing players who are cashing in on UFA market after the great season. We must have some kind of system IMO. This is something that worries me as well, does anybody have any ideas for this?
|
|
|
Post by Minnesota Wild on Feb 20, 2007 1:07:48 GMT -5
I guess I'm willing to try it without vetos... just kinda scary I guess. The speed of deals would be cool though. Waivers is a must. The time zone thing is another good point with that. I'm in a league where there is no veto system, into our second year now and it's the best league I've ever been in. We had a problem once with a manager making dumb trades and that manager was promptly replaced and the new manager built that team back into a playoff contender. With people who know what they're doing, this shouldn't be a problem.
|
|
|
Post by Washington Captals on Feb 20, 2007 1:14:45 GMT -5
Alright as long as you rule with an iron fist I guess it is cool with me ;D
I have many idea's on turnover rules. We can chat on messenger and you could post a poll or something on any possible rule changes on here if you want.
Thanks for going through that novel!
|
|
|
Post by Anaheim Ducks on Feb 20, 2007 1:30:20 GMT -5
10. We need a turnover system. I didn't take this into account enough in my keeper league at the beginning. By luck or skill a team can build an amazing dynasty. If this occurs the league will be dead without a yearly turnover system. The best teams will get board with winning and the worst will quit with no chance to catch up in a year or two. It might take them 5 years if they are unlucky and many people won't be that patient. I suggest some sort of system based on performance. The best teams lose players to the worst. This is kinda like cup teams losing players who are cashing in on UFA market after the great season. We must have some kind of system IMO. This is something that worries me as well, does anybody have any ideas for this? [/quote] The only turnover system I can think of in a dynasty league is applying salary cap in the league. But I guess it would be too complicated to apply.
|
|
|
Post by Minnesota Wild on Feb 20, 2007 1:40:23 GMT -5
10. We need a turnover system. I didn't take this into account enough in my keeper league at the beginning. By luck or skill a team can build an amazing dynasty. If this occurs the league will be dead without a yearly turnover system. The best teams will get board with winning and the worst will quit with no chance to catch up in a year or two. It might take them 5 years if they are unlucky and many people won't be that patient. I suggest some sort of system based on performance. The best teams lose players to the worst. This is kinda like cup teams losing players who are cashing in on UFA market after the great season. We must have some kind of system IMO. This is something that worries me as well, does anybody have any ideas for this? The only turnover system I can think of in a dynasty league is applying salary cap in the league. But I guess it would be too complicated to apply. [/quote] Yeah, I'm in a salary cap league right now and I really don't like it and I'm not even the commish. There is no way I would want to be the commish of a salary cap league. Pittsburgh has some good ideas as far as this goes, hopefully he can either post it here or you guys can try to talk to him on MSN and eventually we'll put a poll up to see if it should be changed.
|
|
|
Post by Anaheim Ducks on Feb 20, 2007 1:47:20 GMT -5
This is something that worries me as well, does anybody have any ideas for this? The only turnover system I can think of in a dynasty league is applying salary cap in the league. But I guess it would be too complicated to apply. Yeah, I'm in a salary cap league right now and I really don't like it and I'm not even the commish. There is no way I would want to be the commish of a salary cap league. Pittsburgh has some good ideas as far as this goes, hopefully he can either post it here or you guys can try to talk to him on MSN and eventually we'll put a poll up to see if it should be changed.[/quote] I see. I will wait for the poll then. Just wanna say as long as the league run as dynasty, HTH, no veto, I will follow all the rules Can't wait, it should be a good one.
|
|
|
Post by Washington Captals on Feb 20, 2007 1:50:12 GMT -5
Alright time for another novel. Here are some ideas we talked about for creation of turnover in a dynasty league. 1. Consolation Tournament Prize- We could award a high pick to the winner of the consolation tournament. This will create interest for teams to stay involved out of the playoffs and also help one lucky team rebuild faster. We would need to evaluate how high the pick needs to be to be appropriate but I assume in a dynasty the draft will be pretty thin so it will probably need to be somewhere in the first round... perhaps sandwiched in the middle between pick #7 and #8. 2. A yearly turnover draft system- Here is an example. The top 6 teams that make the playoffs will be asked to only protect a certain number of their players. Say the champ protects 5, 2nd protects 6, 3rd 7 and so on to 6th protecting 10. All the rest of their team's players would be thrown in a draft pool. The amount of players a playoff team could lose would be based on their performance. (ex. 1st can lose up to 3 players, 2nd and 3rd can lose 2, 4th-6th can only lose 1) Goalies may also need to be protected in addition to the allotted amount if say the team only has two (goalies are a fragile commodity)... although that can be debated if it is necessary. The bottom 8 teams would then select from this pool. You could have different rules like if a team finishes in the bottom 3 two years in a row they get 3 picks. If a team finishes out of the playoffs 2 years in a row (but not both times in the bottom 3 ) they get 2 picks. If a team only finishes out of the playoffs 1 year they get one pick. All of these different stipulations are up for debate but you get the idea. The drafting order would be the same as the drafting order for the other drafts would be (reverse order or based on lottery if we do that). Remember after the playoff teams lose 3,2,1, or no players in this draft they get all the rest of their guys back of course. Various other rules can be done in a similar basis but for longer periods of dominance. (we have a rule called the dynasty effect rule where if you when the championship two years in a row you can only protect 10 players and EACH team out of the playoffs gets one unprotected player from you. This of course is a more severe depth attack on your team because you would lose 8 players instead of only 3 or 2 but they wouldn't be in your top 10. This same rule applies to any team that finishes top 3 for 3 years in a row) Anyway all the different kinks can be debated but in general cascading protection rules for playoff teams to create turnover given to the bottom of the league is the main idea. 3. We could have 10 minor league players but only keep 3 to create a little turnover in the minors ranks as well... although that isn't as much a dynasty now is it haha. Anyway all these ideas are meant to allow rebuilding teams to keep thier entire teams over long periods of time... yet knock down top teams like would really happen with UFA and a Cup team in the NHL losing players. I have found that rules like this force teams to be more active and not just sit on their stars forever. If they feel they arn't going to be able to protect an elite player they may decide to rather trade him for several younger less proven players just to spread out the value before losing the original player to a turnover draft. I must say it makes keeper/dynasty leagues much more exciting !
|
|
|
Post by Anaheim Ducks on Feb 20, 2007 2:02:53 GMT -5
The first 2 suggestions sounds fair and I am good to go with it So basically, is it just like the NHL Waiver Draft several years ago? I think it's workable. I am not sure about the third one though
|
|